Gone Away ~ The journal of Clive Allen in America

England, my England
11/05/2005

From time to time I have indulged myself by posting what I think of as geographical articles (Landscapes and More on Landscapes). The understandable lack of interest with which these have been received has served to confirm my feeling that I should not allow the stranger aspects of my personality to run rampant through these pages. After all, the very fact that they are strange indicates that there will be a lack of interest in such things amongst the great majority of people.

So, to a large extent, I have curbed my natural impulses to write of matters geographical. And I find that I have been reasonably successful in doing so; I was quite surprised in hunting through the blog to find only two posts that are unashamedly geographical. What my readers cannot appreciate, however, is my even greater success in not mentioning another weird interest of mine: English history.

I am not entirely stupid. Whilst flirting with disaster in producing even two articles on geography, I know full well that to do a history post is the equivalent of committing blog hara kiri (okay, I know it's really seppuku but who else does?). I have been tempted often but have always resisted. And you can have no idea how I have protected you, the reader, in this. Get me on to the subject of Anglo Saxon history from 500 to 1000AD and I am perfectly capable of going on for hours and boring you within an inch of your life in the process.

The bad news is that this is about to change. Something has happened that has made me throw all common sense to the wind and to decide upon a glorious but suicidal determination to do a history post. I no longer care that no-one will understand and that my blog will become anathema, a place to be avoided by all sane readers. I must do this.

You see, I've been stung. Over at Blighty Blog a fellow Brit named Marlowe has begun a series taking a humorous look at British history (poking fun at history is allowed, taking it seriously, never!). Mr Marlowe starts from the eminently sensible premise that none of us would actually enjoy living in the historical periods that we might have a hankering for. Who would argue with that? I think we are all aware that our modern comforts and conveniences are a very recent phenomenon and that we would not survive long without them.

But still, I've been stung. When I read the first of Mr Marlowe's articles, I was moved to point out that many of the awful aspects of life in those days were the result of the Norman conquest and that life for the common Englishman before that event was not nearly as bad as we might think. It was Mr Marlowe's answer to my comment that has stung me into presenting this particular post.

Of course, I understand completely that what Mr Marlowe is doing is quite legitimate as humor and I applaud his bravery in venturing forth upon the ground of history. His intent is to open our eyes to just how beastly living in those times was and to have a little fun whilst doing so. But, in the words of George Costanza, "it's not you, it's me." I care about our history too much. In it I see the reasons for so much that we take for granted today. I see the character of the English people rooted in those Anglo Saxons of so long ago; I see institutions today that were first begun by those pre-conquest peoples.

My argument is not really with Mr Marlowe. It is much more that I wish we had a greater understanding of just how much we owe to our Anglo Saxon ancestors. More work has been done in the last thirty years in the field of Anglo Saxon archaeology than was done in the previous thousand and we know enough now to stop using that misleading term, "the Dark Ages". I cannot imagine that anyone would actually do this but, if you're interested in a good overview of present scholarship in this area, I recommend In Search of the Dark Ages by Michael Wood.

There are a few points made by Mr Marlowe that I would like to take issue with, however. Rather than clutter up his comments system with long discussions of matters not really relevant to his series, I will deal with them here.

Mr Marlowe asks the question, "to those at the bottom of the pile wasn't the only difference to their life that their lords spoke a different language?" My answer must be a resounding, "No!" As I mentioned in my first response to Mr Marlowe's article, the feudal system was brought to England by the Normans and it was this system that made virtual slaves of those who worked the land. There was a social hierarchy in pre-conquest England, it's true, but it was far less rigid and unfair than the feudal system. The vast majority of Englishmen were freemen, meaning that they could own and farm land without owing a percentage of their produce to the lord of their area. They had obligations but these centered on their duty to serve as soldiers when their lord required them for the defense of the land. Even this duty was limited to a period of three months and this was the reason for Harold Godwinson's difficulties in holding a large army together while awaiting the Norman invasion. I suppose there is some irony in the fact that it was the amount of freedom in Anglo Saxon society that led ultimately to its subjugation by the Normans.

I am then confronted with this statement from Mr Marlow: "Oh and don't forget that those Danish tourists didn't visit quite so much." Ignoring the fact that the Normans were actually Danes who had settled in France and that the "tourists" came to stay in the end therefore, I would point out that Scandinavian power to invade anywhere in Western Europe was broken by the Anglo Saxons at the Battle of Stamford Bridge. Harald Hardrada made himself king of both Denmark and Norway by being the most ruthless and efficient war leader ever known in Scandinavia. With his death at the Battle of Stamford Bridge all Viking raids into England ceased, not because the Normans had taken over but because the Anglo Saxons had demonstrated that the time of Danish supremacy was over.

Hardrada's invasion was something of an anomaly anyway. Under King Alfred the Great and his grandson, Athelstan, England had largely subdued the threat of the Vikings and the brief interlude of the Danish King Cnut was ended with a return to power by the Anglo Saxons. It should be remembered, too, that the Danes and Anglo Saxons were closely related peoples and had reached an accommodation whereby they lived happily enough together.

Finally, Mr Marlowe says, "The age you talk of as golden was only so in a historical context. I doubt many 21st century visitors on the Blighty time machine would want to hang around there too long." I do not disagree with this, although I think the reason we would not enjoy such a visit is because we have become so used to the conveniences of modern life. But is that not true of any age? Is it not natural that we should prefer the comforts that we know to the perceived hardships of a previous time? But I will stick my neck out and venture this: that the 21st century visitors on the Blighty time machine would find it a lot easier to live in the 11th century than they would in the centuries that followed.

So that is my answer to the points raised by Mr Marlowe. I am sorry to have inflicted this on my suffering readers but, for once, my reason was overpowered by passion. My advice to you all is this: don't show any interest in this post whatsoever. If I get even a hint of approval, I will be severely tempted to do a few more historical posts!

Clive

Way
What? Am I first in line, or has everyone run for cover? Hey, screw them with a torture rack -- I like history.

I don't own many quotes, which I find easy to live with, so here's one from sombody that I might repeat often: "There's nothing new under the sun except history we don't know."

I can't remember who said that...Alf, perhaps?
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Jodie
I knew it was seppuku. So there. ;) I love history. I love English and French history in particular, especially societal history...so please, indulge yourself all you wish. I'll be reading. And I definitely agree with you about the 11th century over those that followed.
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Gone Away
You're first in line, Way - they haven't started to run yet...

And I dunno who said it but it's a great quote!
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Gone Away
Oh Jodie, you shouldn't encourage me! :D

No insult intended with the seppuku thing, by the way. I was trying to cover all the bases. ;)
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Jodie
None taken...that's why you got a wink. :D
Date Added: 11/05/2005

keeefer
Excellent, finally someone dispelling the myth that before the french got there the english couldnt defend themselves.

I read a very intruiging article a few weeks back that made me sit up and take notice (not easily done i enjoy being pig ignorant). It examined the working life of a peasant in the fgeudal system. Yes they worked very hard, eeking out their living. However, the majority (the land workers) did in fact only work about 6 months of the year. The rest of their time was free time and they were supported by the Land owner.....consequently theyd get drunk and roll around in the sh1t but then they were peasants. It was quite an eye opener to me as the article went on to explain how the current workforce in the western world actually works far longer hours and (for equivalently) less pay. I wish i could remember where i read it, i think it may have been the BBC site....i'll see if i can dig it out
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Gone Away
Very interesting, Keef. It would make sense that they only worked during the farming season - ploughing, planting and harvesting. Personally, I think we have a slanted view of those distant years - they seem harsh and brutal to us, and they are in our terms, but the reality was a good deal more livable than we realize. After all, they survived long enough to give rise to us, didn't they? ;)
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Ned
*tip-toes into the blog, hoping no-one notices that she is Danish

Ahem! Well, well. Nice little dissertation, lovely lesson. Glad you folks were able to rid yourselves of those pesky Danes. Nasty lot, they are. Sorry about that whole Norman thing, hadn't realized the Danes were behind that too. Interesting stuff, held my attention. It's nice to see someone write history as if it weren't all just... umm... yesterday's news.

I have always liked history and the key to making history interesting is how it is presented and how it is made relevant to the reader. You have made it both interesting and relevant and shown a great admiration for your country and your countrymen. Well done.
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Gone Away
Thank you, Ned, you are too kind.

In fact, we didn't send all of the Danes packing. Alfred allowed them to settle north of Watling Street (a Roman road that runs from London to Shrewsbury) and they mingled with the local Angles to form the basis of the present population of Yorkshire, Northumberland, Derbyshire, etc. This explains the heavy Yorkshire accent that still contains many words of Scandinavian derivation - "ta", meaning thank you is an example, being directly related to the Scandinavian "tak".
Date Added: 11/05/2005

Ned
Oh, and I don't care if it is hari kiri or seppuku, all that asian food gives me heartburn. Let me just have some good old American food, hotdogs and hamburgers, wash it all down with the blood of my enemies (oops, sorry, viking genetic memory there).
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Gone Away
.oO(Those Danes - you just can't keep em down... :D)
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Mad
*Struggles to suppress urge to join in -- fails*

Along with the slavery of feudalism the Normans also destroyed the place of women within society. In Anglo-Saxon England women had a respected role within society (they were considered the advisors to their men folk - in essence they were the power behind the throne of Anglo-Saxon life) and they could hold land and goods. After 1066 women in England were reduced to centuries of being virtual chattel. So I'd like to hazard that a female visitor from our time would have a far more pleasant visit in pre-conquest times.
Let us also consider the Witan; what's this? A democratic institution! The succession of the throne from father to son was not guaranteed, rather when a king died the Witan (a council of Earls and leaders from around the country) would meet to decide who should be the next king.
Given the choice I'd rather spend time pre-conquest than under the Normans any day.
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Gone Away
Hear, hear, Mad, and good points all! But where have you been all day? Hung around in Messenger for a while but there was an absence of your presence...
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Mad
I'm off sick Dad, got some 'orrible virus. :(
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Gone Away
Thought that might be it, Mad; you were feeling pretty bad yesterday, I know. Get better soon (that's an order from Yerdad)!
Date Added: 12/05/2005

keeefer
Its good to see you are tucked up in bed with that illness Bruh ;)
Date Added: 12/05/2005

John Evans
Absolutely, Clive. Before Churchill, Alfred was the greatest Englishman. And although Winston had Norman ancestors, he always wrote predominately with short Anglo-Saxon words ~ and won a Nobel Prize for doing so! Pity our leaders today fall so far short.
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Gone Away
Ah well, John, I guess greatness only comes along about once in a generation. Maybe someone somewhere is being prepared...
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Josh
Though I would be lying if I said I could follow this thread with rapt attention, I do find it amusing that you now live in a country that considers the first McDonald's Drive-Thru a historical landmark. ;)
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Gone Away
Well, I guess everyone has to be proud of whatever history they have, Josh. ;)
Date Added: 12/05/2005

Ken
Those who are awake live in a constant state of amazement.
Date Added: 14/05/2005

Gone Away
I think there's more truth than we realize in that statement, Ken... ;)
Date Added: 14/05/2005

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